Landscapers find workers gaming the system to collect unemployment benefits

It is. My own cousin, a laid-off construction worker is collecting unemployment and simultaneously, working under the table for cash as I type this. He's actually proud of his 'ingenuity', too.

So NO moral obligation to turn him in?

You have my condolences, dear. As the saying goes, 'you can't pick your family.' BTW: It's good to see you following doctor's orders by posting on NV. Of all my peeps, you're one of my favorites.

Thanks Grim. You are someone I can consider a true friend on this site. And 'friend' is a word I don't use lightly. Takes a bit to type out a sentence some days. But the Doc was right. Seems to be helping with motor skills.

My uncle...a strong conservative, with a solid work ethic, turned his own son (my cousin) in. That must have been a hard decision for him to make, but in the end...he did what was right. This was clear back in October. The response from the gov't has been zilch. Nada. Seems like they literally don't give a damn if people abuse the system or not. Afterall, to rectify the wrong would be counterintuitive for them and run against their goal of creating a nanny state. The more people they have sucking off the giant, sagging teat of the federal government, the happier they are.

Hmmm...smells like Fascism. Did anyone bother to tell him to quit or you'd report him?

Hmmm...smells like Fascism. Did anyone bother to tell him to quit or you'd report him?

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, is it? Seems to be a running theme in this thread. As I stated in post 2.3...the one right above yours....

My uncle...a strong conservative, with a solid work ethic, turned his own son (my cousin) in. That must have been a hard decision for him to make, but in the end...he did what was right. This was clear back in October. The response from the gov't has been zilch. Nada.

Actually, smarty pants, nowhere in the post does it say anyone said they'd tell him to knock off what he was doing or they'd report the offending son/cousin. It simply stated that your uncle turned his son in.

My question, and I'm typing really slow for you, was "Did anyone bother to tell him to quit or you'd report him?"

Talk about reading comprehension.

Thanks for playing! Why don't you tone down the aloof sarcasm, mkay?

My question, and I'm typing really slow for you, was "Did anyone bother to tell him to quit or you'd report him?"

Do you really have that big of a disconnect between.."report him" and "turned him in"? Care to tell me what the difference is?

Thanks for playing! Why don't you tone down the aloof sarcasm

Learned it from the libbies. I'm surprised you're not pleased with how quickly I perfected it. Incidentally, do you always use sarcasm in posts where your asking others to not be sarcastic?

Look. Here's the disconnect:

YOU are completely missing the first half of the sentence. I am asking YOU if you talked to your cousin or if your uncle talked to your cousin and mentioned the fact that he should stop what he's doing or his father was going to report him. Did anyone bother to express the fact that they were this upset with what he was doing?

Whatever. I've completely lost interest.

And regarding the sarcasm...just speaking the local lingo.

I am asking YOU if you talked to your cousin or if your uncle talked to your cousin and mentioned the fact that he should stop what he's doing or his father was going to report him.

Why on earth for??? The dude is 45 years old, for chrissakes! You expect his 65 year old father to say: "Now, now son. I don't approve of what you're doing. You better change your ways because I'm your daddy and I said so. If you don't behave, you'll be punished!"

Lordy...do liberals think people should have to grow up, be adults and take responsibility for their own actions ever? 45 year old men gaming the system deserve a second chance from daddy or cousin. Now I've heard it all.

Insurance companies are going to have to treat 26-year-olds as children. What difference does an extra 19 years matter?

LOL! Very good point. Did you notice that the poster was more concerned with whether or not this adult male got a stern warning from daddy that he was with the fact that the State of WI has taken zero action?

Actually, I just come from a family that communicates. Sorry you all might struggle with that a bit. My bad. It wasn't an issue of being reprimanded by the family rather than just letting him know how you all felt. There isn't any second chance about it whatsoever. Its about communication. I also asked if YOU spoke to your relative. It seems like you all knew it was happening. I can only surmise you all probably kept quiet TO him but spoke ABOUT him privately amongst yourselves.

I'm sorry if you think its an issue of age. My family takes care of each other, regardless of age. That means telling them when we disapprove of something they are doing as well as when we approve.

I also asked if YOU spoke to your relative

I'm not sure how this is any of your business, but I found out when I went from IA to WI for my grandmothers funeral. He had taken that opportunity as an excuse to get hammered and embarrass the whole family at the wake. He was bragging about his new found way to game the system afterward. I can't remember if that was before or after he started puking in the cemetary. The last time I saw him prior to that was 6 years ago.

It's hilarious that your blaming my uncle for being a lousy communicator. Especially since my cousin cut off all communication about 5 years ago with his dad, mom and sister. The series of events that led up to this? My uncle let him move back home, tried to help him stay employed,.....and suggested he go to treatment. That's when Mike went ballistic. Grabbed an oar and hit his 60 year old father across the face with it.

Yep, you're right Seahawk. Family members should definately continue to put themselves in the path of this drunken monster and chit chat with him. Your suggestion reminds me of the naivity shown by President Barry when he thought he could 'reason' with Ahmadinejad.

Like I said. I'm sorry that you struggle with being to communicate with your family. I wasn't ever judging you, so chill. I didn't blame anyone. I simply retorted to:

Why on earth for??? The dude is 45 years old, for chrissakes! You expect his 65 year old father to say: "Now, now son. I don't approve of what you're doing. You better change your ways because I'm your daddy and I said so. If you don't behave, you'll be punished!"

and:

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, is it? Seems to be a running theme in this thread. As I stated in post 2.3...the one right above yours....

I wasn't looking for your family history. You didn't have to say anything. You could've said, "He's pretty much a deadbeat that no one really talks to." I've had a cousin die from overdose, and he cut himself off from our family. But he sure as hell didn't have any job.

I'm sorry that it seems completely normal to you that some guy's father reports his son to the government. From your point of view and knowing the backstory I'm sure it seemed like a normal thing. From my point of view it seemed kind of odd. I could never see my father doing that without talking to me. Not because I need a "scolding" but because he cares about me.

I'll leave you now to your obviously pleasant life and continue in my blissful cloud of obvious naivety.

Either way, he shouldn't be allowed to game the system while some of us work two jobs, go to school, and attempt to have a life with whatever time we have left to spare.

Precisely. And if anyone should know, you should, Grim. The effort you put forth toward self betterment and your own future...the responsibility you take...is a lesson that many people can learn from.

I find it sad that there are people like seahawk who don't seem to give a damn that our governments are so inept, they will allow people to game the system, even after they've been reported. You'd think he'd be appalled by that, rather than blaming the family members who have done everything to try and help the guy.

I have a little bit of experience with addiction in the family too. And if I recall, the ones who believe the family should continually cater to, coddle and give chance after chance to the alcoholic or addict are called 'codependent'. Maybe seahawk should hit an Al-Anon meeting.

Excuse me, but I have in no way been hostile. Please point it out where I've been hostile. I rather feel I've been trying to back peddle from a simple question. I'd venture to say the hostility is the other way. I've been called ignorant, a liberal(which I consider offensive) and now I need to hit an Al-Anon meeting. Puh-leeze.

Also, Pat, please tell me when I placed any blame to any family members? I didn't.

Who said anything about catering or coddling? I simply asked if you stated your problem to the family member. Maybe you should attend an Al-Anon meeting. I'm sure there's quite a bit about communication.

You know nothing about me but have made plenty of assumptions and accusations. You know nothing about how I feel about the government. You only know about how I feel about family.

And, finally, where did I say I thought this guy should get away with anything? I don't think I've been hostile one iota and I haven't said this guy didn't get what he deserved. Go reread all I've written and check yourself.

I'm out.

I simply asked if you stated your problem to the family member.

And therein lies the problem. You think I have the problem. You think my uncle has the problem. You DON'T seem to think my cousin has a problem or that the state of WI has an even bigger problem.

You only know about how I feel about family.

And you've made plenty of haughty assumptions as to how you think I feel about family. You don't know me or my family, darlin'. And your ridiculous diatribe regarding something as personal as my family is arrogant.

This unbelievably elitist statement of yours was asinine:

"...Actually, I just come from a family that communicates. Sorry you all might struggle with that a bit...."

And, finally, where did I say I thought this guy should get away with anything?

Show me where you've made a single comment about the ineptitude of the state of WI regarding this issue instead of blaming the family and I will withdraw the statement.

I do not know what Michigans rules are, but some states do not require you to take a job for less pay. So it could be that these places saying people are declining the job is because it is for less pay. Maybe they are not offering Michigans Average wage for landscaping

There are 18,559 POSTED landscaping jobs nationwide. Of these, 12,241 pay more than $50,000. 8,271 pay over $70,000. Again...these are jobs posted on sites such as Career Builder and Monster and does not include the small, 'Mom & Pops' with "Laborer Wanted" signs in their storefront.

In a state where unemployment is double digits, using the excuse 'I won't work for less than I made previously'...is weak. If you really want to work as a landscaper and want to make more than you did before...move. If you don't want to move...work for less. It's that simple. It amazes me that people seem to think we're still in a candidate driven market.

80 to 100 people applying for how many open positions, and they claim to have a hard time finding quality applicants? I find that hard to believe.

Why? When companies sliced and diced earlier...they cut either their newbies or their low hanging fruit. It shouldn't surprise you in the least that a laid off Deli worker is submitting an application saying: "I have no experience...but I'm a quick learner."

I grew up working in fields, landscape, manual labor right next to Philipinos and Mexicans, legal migrants with green cards. I can say this comfortably: a lot of white people don't want to do hard work or manual labor. I can only imagine that they view themselves above it.

When I was young and my aunt was living with my family and she had an aneurysm. This put her on disability and the state wouldn't allow her to have a job. When we went to pick her check up, at the welfare/job opportunity office, there were more white people than anyone picking up a check. Meanwhile, my 13yo butt was making just under $10 an hour in 1988 working farm labor.

I grew up working in fields, landscape, manual labor right next to Philipinos and Mexicans, legal migrants with green cards. I can say this comfortably: a lot of white people don't want to do hard work or manual labor.

Me too. Although, most of those I worked with were proudly illegal. It's how I got through college. Now that I am out of law school in this economy, I am like kryptonite to even the labor/service industry. Reasons: I am obviously legal, white, and well- educated. Since I am legal, they know that they will have to pay me a fair (legal) wage; since I am white (and not fluent in Spanish), they know I may be prone to reporting illegal hiring practices; and since I am well-educated, they assume I will have lost my manual labor work ethic and view work through the same cynical view as you view white people.

While I wait for interviews and continue applying for jobs, I would love to cut grass, landscape, work construction (I have extensive experience in all of the above) to help keep the family afloat. Unfortunately, many of my fellow Americans put the all-mighty dollar above their loyalty to their fellow American and the rule of law. Sad really.

Btw, $10/hour in 1988 was pretty good. I made $10/hr working on a small asphalt crew in NC in college in 2000. Please try to tell me that farm work is harder. I did it in Arkansas for 1 1/2, btw.

While I wait for interviews and continue applying for jobs, I would love to cut grass, landscape, work construction (I have extensive experience in all of the above) to help keep the family afloat.

You're one of the few people left that understands the words "work ethic". What I tend to run into on a regular basis, is people that seem to think a company needs them more than they need the company.

I was talking with a candidate just last week. He was pretty mediocre compared with the rest of the candidates in his field. Not bad. Not overly impressive either. But man. Did this guy have an ego. Making wild claims about what he could do for a company (without knowing a company's current structure), talking about how wonderful he was in general. His most recent base salary, prior to lay off, was $75,000. When I asked him the minimum salary he would need to see, he said "$125,000." And he's not open to relocation.

It's amazing how many people don't realize it's a highly competitive market out there. I wish you the best in your search. With your views regarding family and work ethic, I'm sure you'll find something in your field soon.

Thanks Pat! I do too... It's been a long road. However, if life were easy, it wouldn't be as meaningful. Unlike your candidate, I am not unaware of the state of the economy, nor basic reality. I can't expect to find employment in my own field, much less in the salary bracket I believe I deserve/am worth. Speaking of work, I am off to Barnes and Noble, applying to a sales position, anyone want to take bets on their reaction to a lawyer(unlicensed) applying to this vacancy? I am expecting "overqualified"...I hate that word.

onomatopoeia -

I'll keep my fingers crossed for ya. Who knows? Might actually be a fun place to work! On the 'overqualified' thing....When you hear it in an inteview, there are ways around it.

A company has every reason to hire you on a sheet a paper (your resume, application, etc.)...or they wouldn't be bringing you in for a conversation. What an inteview is all about is finding a reason not to hire someone.

When you hear objections like..."you seem overqualified", or "I'm concerned about....", just remember those are buying signs. They are looking to you to explain to them why those things shouldn't be a concern.

If you want some strategic ideas on how to overcome some of those objections or the 'overqualified' thing...my e mail is always open to you. Would love to help you any way I can.

Incidentally...did I every tell you that your screen name was the word that stumped my daughter in a 7th grade spelling bee? =)

Onomoto-

I know $10/hr was a GREAT wage. I was working for a seed company and was sometimes working with chemicals and driving tractors aside from planting and harvesting. I had worked for a few years every summer so I had been getting raises each summer. It WAS hard. I've never laid asphalt but I can imagine it isn't a hoot.

While I wait for interviews and continue applying for jobs, I would love to cut grass, landscape, work construction (I have extensive experience in all of the above) to help keep the family afloat. Unfortunately, many of my fellow Americans put the all-mighty dollar above their loyalty to their fellow American and the rule of law. Sad really.

It IS sad. Really sad. Along with your "unfortunately" I'd add another one: unfortunately our government doesn't spend enough time fining businesses and farms that DO hire illegals. It will always be futile trying to just catch the individuals. The stopgap will be taking the jobs from them in the first place.

But that's what lobbying gets you.

unfortunately our government doesn't spend enough time fining businesses and farms that DO hire illegals

Yet when ICE does do it's job, the pro-illegal immigration crowd gets all up in arms and protests them for doing their jobs. Do they get mad at the businesses for hiring illegals? Nope. Do they get mad at the illegals for violating our laws? Nope. They get mad at ICE. Go figure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDnSi80w7OI

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20080512/NEWS/80512012/Claims-of-ID-fraud-lead-to-largest-raid-in-state-history

Hey pat, thanks for the advice. I wish it was being brought up in interviews... in fact, I wish I was actually getting more interviews. I have had 3 interviews in 1 year and 2 months, probably 150+ job applications. I think there are so many applicants out there that they can afford to simply drop my resume in the wastebin immediately, as I am "overqualified" assuming I would tire of the job and leave quickly... Right! in this economy!? I already made that mistake once when I moved from D.C. I learned this lesson the hard way...

sea, indeed it is sad. I couldn't agree more about enforcement and punishment of employers of illegals. In fact, I think we have an illegal employer problem not as much of an illegal alien problem.

I think there are so many applicants out there that they can afford to simply drop my resume in the wastebin immediately, as I am "overqualified" assuming I would tire of the job and leave quickly.

Try this strategy:

Most of the postings on job boards or in papers go though some low level HR Generalist. This person is getting paid somewhere between $9 - $12 per hour and is inundated with resumes. Probably 200-300 per position.

Most HR Generalists aren't losing any sleep over the position being open. They are complying with orders from their superiors to "find someone with X skills." A Generalist's incentive structure is usually tied to days-to-fill and cost-per-hire. Because of the sheer volume of resumes they receive and because part of their income is tied to hiring someone quickly, they tend to scan the most recent job or two on a resume for certain keywords...(for Barnes & Noble, it might be 'retail sales', 'sales associate', etc.)..when they find 10-15 that have the keywords, they keep those and chuck the rest, not even realizing there might be a guy in the middle of the pile with...say...10 years at the Borders down the street.

Your odds these days, of landing a job by going through HR with a resume are about as good as being struck by lightning. =)

If you aren't on Linked-In...get on Linked-In. Morfe importantly, learn how to use it effectively. Join some of the Groups on there that are in your field of interest. Network. When cold-call applying, whether online or in person, find out who the hiring authority is and bypass HR altogether. The hiring authority is the one that has the pain to fill the position. Not the HR Department. Respectfully request 5 minutes of the hiring authority's time and be prepared to discuss what assets you bring to the company....not the position itself. Address any hot button issues that you know of. If an ad says: "evening hours", you know staffing at night is a problem. Mention flexibility in your schedule. Keep track of the time while you're talking to the hiring authority. When the 5 minutes is up, say: "Our 5 minutes is up. I'd look forward to continuing our conversation. When works well for you?"

These little tactics...and a few other time tested ones...will help you stand out from the thundering herd.

Lastly, on the "overqualified" thing...use the strategy I like to call "Become a 3 year old". What do three year olds do? They ask a lot of difficult to answer "why" questions. When you're told you're overqualified, just say "Why?" and shut up. When they give you their reasoning, explain why it shouldn't be a concern. Be prepared to go "three deep". Generally, if someone gives you an objection and you're able to counter that objection 3 times, it will eliminate the objection.

An Example:

HR: "You look overqualified for this role."

O: "Oh? Why?"

HR: "Well, you worked in the legal profession making more money."

O: "Because of my recent layoff with a financially insecure company, my current goals are more about stability of an organization than they are about money. B&N has an outstanding reputation for stability."

HR: "But you might leave as soon as an opportunity in your field opens up"

O: "I believe B&N will provide me with the work/life balance I'm looking for. My field of expertise doesn't accomodate quality time spent with (spouse/kids/friends)"

HR: "But how do we know you won't get bored and look elsewhere?"

O: "How do you know if anyone you hire won't get bored and look elsewhere? My resume reflects a history of career stability. I'm not a job hopper."

I can guarantee you that 95% of the time, the person you're speaking with won't continue to object after you overcome it three times.

Sorry I got so long winded. I don't know much...but I know how to get employed in this market. (smile)

Wow, Pat sure sounds like you know your stuff! Thanks for the advice! I have been focusing alot on networking lately, the church has a young professionals group which has led to a few new contacts and I have been attending every free event I can find that looks promising for networking. I even joined a new networking group in Raleigh called the Brotherhood of Unemployed Men aka (the B.U.M.'s)..hehe. Great group of guys... Everyone I know who has been hired recently was either rehired by the company who laid them off or got a job through a contact. I am currently researching local golf courses to call and inquire about greenskeeping jobs (one of my college summer jobs) for some spare cash until something meaningful comes along. I may end up looking for work back in DC (much more stable job market) and stay with friends during the week and come home to NC on the weekends... wife is in grad school here. Not ideal, but we do what we have to do...

B.U.M.'s...I love it. Whoever came up with that one was a genius!

Isn't D.C. a lot more expensive than NC? If you DO go that route, make sure the salary is adjusted for cost of living.

Here's a handy-dandy little cost of living calculator that will allow you to compare the two areas.

http://tools.gmsrelo.com/ToolsFAS/Tool_SalarySurveyState.asp

Ya, the BUM's started in Raleigh, but they are expanding nationwide... DC is more expensive, but my friend in DC won't allow me to pay rent..I have offered...So, this is where I am lucky, I guess... More job opportunities, higher pay, no living expenses = win! Only downside is that I am away from my wife for at least 5 days per week... Wish me luck!

You suggested career builder and monster. I ran a quick query to see if your claims were accurate.

I do notice you have refined your claim a bit, down from 18K+ jobs nationwide to the relevant state of michigan.

followed your first link:

LANDSCAPE LABORER Full time. Chauffeur's license , exp. with planting and sprinklers.

This one wont let me apply because of this:

This employer requests that only candidates within 100 miles of Grosse Pointe, MI apply to this job.

So I should move to Grosse Pointe to apply for a job? Where do I move next? Will I get my deposit back. Will the employer want to see my drivers license (ID) with my old address? Will he ask me why its from a town 200 miles away? Two states over? How long do you suggest I wait before applying for a new DL in a new town, where I dont have a job yet, now that I have moved to apply for a job?

This one is 10-13 an hour and wants 3 years of experience. Fair enough.

This one wants Landscape work experience and Spanish language skills preferred. Hmm.. wonder why.

Another one: This is a part time position that can lead to full time/management position. So if I work 20 hours a week for $10 dollars an hour.... *note wage not given for this one.

Another one that comes up under landscape

Education: Bachelors
Job Category: Sales

But thats because of their intro: "experiences profitability and stability in an ever-changing business landscape. ADP has experienced unprecedented double-digit growth and was ranked #1 by..."

And that started on page three of your list of links where you claim "329 'landscape' jobs in MI"

Heres one for 95K on page 2 of your second link

Ooops..

Must have Ph.D. in Chemistry or a related field, or the foreign equivalent, and 4 years of experience with Si-based chemistry in an industrial setting. Must have experience with synthesis of high purity oligosiloxanes, polysiloxanes, and other organic hybrid materials.

There were more actual landscaping jobs in link 2. However, many of the wages were 8-9 dollars or listed at 9-14 (DOQ). There was 110 jobs in the second link. Will that make a dent in 700K unemployed? Do you think these outfits from the article are maybe the ones offering $8 an hour? Ya know... minimum wage (basically). and wondering why they are not getting qualified applicants? No. I dont believe them.

Your third example, the first link I clicked on was for a job in Tennesee. The article was about a couple of Michigan landscaping outfits claims. That is not grounds keepers. So again, irrelevant to the Michigan Landscaping outfits claims, unless of course your point was that the qualified applicants for Michigan Landscaping jobs are taking jobs in grounds keeping instead.

I remain skeptical of the articles claims.

You suggested career builder and monster. I ran a quick query to see if your claims were accurate.

Reading comprehension, my dear. Reading comprehension. I said "....such as CareerBuilder and Monster.." Not only Career Builder and Monster. I used them as examples of job boards where positions might be posted.

I do notice you have refined your claim a bit, down from 18K+ jobs nationwide to the relevant state of michigan.

I stand by my claim of 18.000 + nationwide and over 1,000 + of those located in MI.

This employer requests that only candidates within 100 miles of Grosse Pointe, MI apply to this job.

So I should move to Grosse Pointe to apply for a job?

Since you're the one who's complaining about people not wanting to take a job making less than they were before...even though their making $0 now...I guess that would be your call. As I've said over and over, for people to want to make more than they did previously in a state with double digit unemployment ...especially if those people now have a large gap in employment on their resume...is silly. Oh. And anyone who would move to Grosse Pointe just to apply for the job, truly is an idiot. Letting the hiring authority know your willing to move there if hired is a different breed of cat though.

Your excuses on the rest are funny. I'm sorry I didn't put more effort into your job search than you're willing to put into it yourself. How horrible of me. Congratulations. You found 5 out of 1,000 + that you take issue with.

unless of course your point was that the qualified applicants for Michigan Landscaping jobs are taking jobs in grounds keeping instead.

(sigh)...No. Many of the same positions have different names. Like "Landscaping Apprentice" v "Groundskeeper". A quick, cursory glance of some of the Groundskeeper positions revealed that the skillset required and duties preformed were nearly identical to the 'Landscape Technician' positions. Also, why wouldn't a Lanscaper take a job as a Groundskeeper if he were currently unemployed and needed to pay the bills?

I remain skeptical of the articles claims.

And you still haven't provided us with sound reasoning as to your skepticism other that you don't like the article. I don't think the writer could have gotten away with publishing it with no research. Yet you can dismiss it with no experience in the employment industry in MI? Interesting.

Stand by it all you want. I checked your sources and found them to be web based misrepresentations of the reality you claim.

Stand by it all you want. I checked your sources and found them to be web based misrepresentations of the reality you claim.

I nominate this as the silliest post of the day. Indeed is a webcrawler, hon. It's sole function is to take the data YOU input, search all job boards and pull all of the positions that match the criteria YOU enter together in one spot so a candidate doesn't have to hit each job board individually.

"all of the positions that match the criteria YOU enter together in one spot so a candidate doesn't have to hit each job board individually."

Exactly my point. YOU put in criteria, I followed YOUR links and found them to be misleading. You claim there are x amount of jobs across the country and I found your source to be dubious. You narrowed your search down to Michigan and claimed over 1,000 jobs. I immediately found, on the first page, they were listing jobs for chemists, in other states, part-time, additional skills including chauffer and CDL and spanish speaking.

Your claims are false.

I have no reason to believe, in Michigan, the few landscaping outfits claiming people dont want to work, cannot find laborers when 80-100 people a week are applying.

Exactly my point. YOU put in criteria, I followed YOUR links and found them to be misleading.

So I have to do your homework fro you now? Do you expect the same from your employers, too? YOU wanted to know how many landscaping jobs were in MI. I provided the POSTED landscaping jobs in MI. You then went on to say..."well...this one in Grosse Point doesn't count because I don't live there..." The site has an 'advanced search' option. Feel free to enter your own criteria instead of telling me you just want landscaping jobs in MI and then changing that criteria when I am nice enough to provide it.

You claim there are x amount of jobs across the country and I found your source to be dubious.

ITS A FREAKING SEARCH ENGINE!!! NOT SOME ARTICLE OR OPINION PIECE!!! Saying Indeed is dubious is like saying Google is dubious because it doesn't bring back results that agree with your ideology. I'll say it slowly this time::...It...brings...back...what...you...enter...for...criteria.....

I entered "Landscaping" with no location. It pulled back over 18,000 positions. You then said "No fair. I just want landscaping jobs in MI." Fine. I gave you landscaping jobs in MI. You said "No fair. I just want landscaping jobs in MI, excluding Grosse Pointe and requiring a skillset I posess. They can not require anything specific like a CDL." Do you see how ludicrous you're becoming? Do you even know how a search engine works?

You narrowed your search down to Michigan and claimed over 1,000 jobs. I immediately found, on the first page, they were listing jobs for chemists, in other states, part-time, additional skills including chauffer and CDL and spanish speaking.

Again....use the advanced seach tool if the scope is too broad for you. Who cares if a landscape position requires a CDL? It's still and landscape position! Same with the Spanish. Or are you one of these people who believes candidates with zero qualifications for a given position should be able to interview for that position anyway because they are a "quick learner".

Your claims are false.

Again...I will ask you...what are your qualifications for making this accusation? Since you don't seem to think you need to be qualified for a landscaper position that requires a CDL to land the job...I'm going to guess that you also don't think you need to be qualified to tell me "I'm false in my own field of expertise.

I have no reason to believe, in Michigan, the few landscaping outfits claiming people dont want to work, cannot find laborers when 80-100 people a week are applying.

(sigh)....I have insurance salesmen applying for Project Manager roles. I have secretaries applying for Safety and Risk Management positons. I have people from completely different industries applying for senior executive roles in my niche. I receive upwards of 300 resumes for each position I work on. Roughly 5 make it to the final round of interviews. Again...what is your experience besides slapping your resume up against the fence and hoping it sticks?

The bottom line is that too many people in MI live in the exact same fantasy land you do. They want a position within 5 miles of the house, that pays more than their previous position, they don't want to have to meet the criteria for the position or develop their interviewing techniques to shine above and beyond all the other applicants and they want all of this even though they have a 6-12 month employment gap ontheir resume.

Our government is in effect, perpetuating this fantasy by saying: "Oh. We understand. You shouldn't have to accept anything your overinflated ego may find distasteful in order to pay your bills. We will let you suck off the government teat for ever extended periods of time instead.

RainDaze

What the hell is your point. It's obvious you don't want a job because you keep looking for excuses for finding one. If I need to feed my family I'll clean toilets and drive where ever and have over the years done just that.

Or is it you just like to argue or even just have someone else do the work for you?

And I have never taken unemployment even through i pay for it.

And I have never taken unemployment even through i pay for it.

You do NOT pay for it your employer does.

You do NOT pay for it your employer does.

Where do those employers get that money from, Jack? Gee...from people who pay for their goods/services maybe?

Hate to break it to you, darlin'...but if ebookout purchases a widget from raindaze's employer, he is INDEED, paying for the unemployment benefits of the laid off workers in that company.

I love how the left thinks money just materializes out of thin air and have absolutely no clue just what exactly they're paying for.

Where do those employers get that money from, Jack? Gee...from people who pay for their goods/services maybe?

If the business owner does not like dealing with the taxes then stop doing the business.

Geese what a lame answer.

Hate to break it to you, darlin'...but if ebookout purchases a widget from raindaze's employer, he is INDEED, paying for the unemployment benefits of the laid off workers in that company.

I love how the left thinks money just materializes out of thin air and have absolutely no clue just what exactly they're paying for.

We are all paying for fire, police, roads and all the religious place that pay NO taxes.

Christ is ain't easy.

Jack -

Why is it so hard for you to ever admit you're wrong or didn't think something through all the way? makes you look like a narcissist.

You didn't bother to go any further in your thought process than "people don't pay for unemployment through their taxes". What you failed to recognize is that people DO pay for unemployment through their consumer spending.

Attempting to wiggle out of that fact by switching the topic from "ebookout doesn't pay for unemployment"...to..."if the business owner doesn't like paying taxes..." doesn't wash. Whether or not a business owner 'likes' paying taxes has nothing to do with the fact that ebookout does indeed, pay for unemployment for companies. So do you...so do I. Everytime we purchase something.

You were wrong that ebookout doesn't pay for unemployment. You failed on that one, Jack. Utter...dismal...failure.

You were wrong that ebookout doesn't pay for unemployment. You failed on that one, Jack. Utter...dismal...failure.

Hell you can lump everything together why stop at unemployment?

You are just being silly besides your usual condensinding tone.

Let's add that we are all paying to help take care of you. Which I have NO problem with.

Hell you can lump everything together why stop at unemployment?

You're admission of erroneous thinking is acknowledged. You're progressing, Jack. I'm proud of you.

You are just being silly besides your usual condensinding tone.

Aww shucks. Now you've gone and damaged my fragile, little psyche. Jack is critical of me! Whatever will I do?

Let's add that we are all paying to help take care of you. Which I have NO problem with.

...and ebookout never stated he had a problem with paying for unemployment.

...and ebookout never stated he had a problem with paying for unemployment.

Bill 'O and Beck circular logic epic fail again or is it your lack of reading comprehension?

Let's add that we are all paying to help take care of you. Which I have NO problem with.

Jack -

You're making no sense again.

#1..You're statement about 'taking care of me' through consumer spending has nothing to do with the article which is about employment/unemployment with regard to landscapers in the state of MI. I ahve never collected a penny of unemployment, so I can only assume that this is another one of your jabs at my health. Kind of like the time you asked me 'Pat..how long before you can't take care of yourself anymore?'

I would even dispute your statement unless you do business with the same phama companies I get meds from or invest in them, live in my state or donate to the charitable foundations that provide research for my particular disabilities.

#2...Ebookout never stated he had a 'problem' with paying for unemployment. Merely that he does pay it. And he does, through his consumer spending. You were wrong when you said he doesn't pay for it and you were wrong when you implied that he has a problem with it.

#3...It's not my problem that you can't see past the end of your nose and realize that not only taxpayers, but consumers pay for damn near everything in this country. I also have no problem with paying for unemployment. I DO have a problem with people who abuse the dollars I put toward their unemployment by sitting on their butts and not looking for work or believing they are 'too good' to take a lesser position than they previously held in the interim.

You do NOT pay for it your employer does

Jack I guess you never owned a business .I pay for the unemployment taxes it has no bases or any thing to do with the employee except it's based on his pay level and is capped at a percentage. I guess you don't think I don't pay part of the SS and MEdicare either? Oh by the way I'm the employer and I pay may own employment taxes thank you!

And to answer another statement about if I don't like to pay taxes I should close my business. Quess what that exactly what I'm getting ready to do. 7 more people out of work.Because I can make a larger return on my investment in tax free bonds. Now what?

But I assume you work for the good old government ,but I think you have forgot who pays your salary also. Just think of one think and forget the fuzzy math . If enought of us make the discission to close and invest else where. Who's going to pay your salary and retirement?

Simple terms for you. The government is lossing it's tax base and when that happen your world is going to come crashing down....!

but if ebookout purchases a widget from raindaze's employer, he is INDEED, paying for the unemployment benefits of the laid off workers in that company.

Jack again Pat is correct that tax is an overhead and is passed on to you!So I guess even though I write the check you really pay for it in the end. I guess you maybe thought I was going to pay for it out of the kindest of my heart?

We are all paying for fire, police, roads and all the religious place that pay NO taxes.

That tax is payed mostly from the property taxes along with schools cost. If you rent it is figured into you rent cost so you do have to pay for it also. Taxes on business are so many it's hard to even find them and some are in the realm of double taxation.

Did you know they hide the cost of home land security that business pay in the workmans comp insurance fees so it doesn't come across as a tax?

Now why would I want to stay in business?And why do you think that business are not going to pass it on to you?

I also have no problem with paying for unemployment. I DO have a problem with people who abuse the dollars I put toward their unemployment by sitting on their butts and not looking for work or believing they are 'too good' to take a lesser position than they previously held in the interim

Pat totally agree with your statement.

I guess you maybe thought I was going to pay for it out of the kindest of my heart?

Donchya just love how liberals think businesses should operate as social service agencies or not-for-profits? You can certainly pick out the ones who don't have a clue how to run a small business.

Maybe they base their business models on the way the government operates (operating at huge deficits) rather than recognizing the elementary concept of: "If my expenses are X, then my profits need to be X, to stay in business. This means I must charge the consumer X for my product of service". Gee! What a novel idea!

Liberial think everything is free, they have been sucking on the governments titties to long and need to be put on solid food before they get buck teeth. It's hell having to grow up isn't it.

It's hell having to grow up isn't it.

You may have just hit on an amazing idea!!! They don't have to grow up! There is actually a business model out there that isn't too complex for them to handle and if they're good at it, it will get them out of the unemployment line! And we're even coming in to the right season for it!!

LEMONADE STANDS!!!!

of course, it would kill opportunities for entreprenureal 8 year olds though. Hmmm...That could be a problem. I have a hunch the 8 years olds would have a higher quality product and friendlier customer service skills.

That could be a problem. I have a hunch the 8 years olds would have a higher quality product and friendlier customer service skills.

Correct on that one!

I don't believe it. If you want to not work and collect unemployment you don't go looking for work

You hit it on the nail..Common practice..

blue-iris...

I truly admire you and your ethics. Any company would be lucky to land you as an employee.

Blue-iris

Well stated. And I think its because you have pride in yourself.