Atheists to Fly July 4 Airplane Banners in 27 States: 'God-LESS America,' 'Atheism is Patriotic'

Obviously, atheists don't care about their carbon footprint...

Primarily because atheists are actually discriminated against, considering they can't hold certain public offices and are regularly scrutinized as being devil worshipers and baby eaters.

I'm not sure why atheists can't just be atheists. What is this incessant need to force your beliefs on everyone else?

They won't be happy till we're all as miserable as they are.

Why do they persist in making a fuss about something they claim doesn't even exist?

What is this incessant need to force your beliefs on everyone else?

So, can I claim the same for all those billboards proclaiming faith?

Why do they persist in making a fuss about something they claim doesn't even exist?

Maybe because people kill other people because of that belief.

Yep, mine as well say "Happy 4th of July and may Something bless America". For me, I'll take God blessing America, we sure could use it.

"What is this incessant need to force your beliefs on everyone else? Sound familiar?"

I have the same question for all the rightwing religious wackos.

They won't be happy till we're all as miserable as they are.

That's just an ignorant comment.

Why do they persist in making a fuss about something they claim doesn't even exist?

Seems to me Atheist are not the ones making a fuss, Christians are. A private organisation is flying banners that support their message. So what? I see at least 5 or 10 pieces of Christian propaganda every day.

There needs to be another term for activist atheists. Atheism to me means ' I could care less, leave me alone'.

I don't see how this is forcing their belief, or their lack of, down your throat. I've never had an atheist come to my door wanting to talk about their belief, or lack their of. However I do have christians knocking at my door wanting to talk about their belief system, and I've had men follow me to my car at Walmart trying to sell me a cross and preach their religion, this is very unsettling because I don't want any man following me to my car regardless of what they want or what they're selling. Then there's all the billboards in front of churches with bible verses is see when I drive as little as 2 miles from my home, is this an issue for me? No, so why are you all so upset about atheists flying banners, if you're strong in your faith and believe in The Lord Jesus Christ what is all the fuss about?

Atheism to me means ' I could care less, leave me alone'.

No, it doesn't.

Christians are.

Not all of us are, nice try.

A private organisation is flying banners that support their message.

Good for them.

I see at least 5 or 10 pieces of Christian propaganda every day.

Sure you do.

That's just an ignorant comment.

I'll bow to your superiority when it comes to being ignorant.

Seems to me Atheist are not the ones making a fuss,

They make just as much noise when it comes to make believe @!$%# as any one else. Forget about the sign for the firefighters in NY? All that fuss for people who died on 9/11, tsk tsk.

Freedom of religion means freedom from religion to me. They all talk the talk, but none can walk the walk, and you can bet JC is pretty pissed-off about it.

robynlewisTX.

Ahh, your one of those viners that can only respond by breaking your point down into tiny little sentences that don't really make any sense. You should take your time and read carefully, paragraphs are a collection of multiple sentences designed to paint a larger picture.

-----------------------------------

Fact. Christian propaganda far outweighs Atheist propaganda. It's not even close, not even remotely close. Every time an atheist organisation does something like this Christians get their panties all up in a twist (hence this very thread and the comments by you and GR). You, and Christians like you, could just as easily ignore it like Atheist ignore the large amounts of Christian propaganda they see every single day.

My guess is that there are more Christians than Atheists. Hence more information from the Christian side.

Atheism to me means ' I could care less, leave me alone'.

No, it doesn't.

Who are you to tell me what my atheism means TO ME?

Runner99

Of course, a lot more, and that's fine. But the striking difference in amounts of propaganda make comments like these:

I'm not sure why atheists can't just be atheists. What is this incessant need to force your beliefs on everyone else?

They won't be happy till we're all as miserable as they are.

Why do they persist in making a fuss about something they claim doesn't even exist?

silly and short-sighted. And it's makes the Christian outrage over events like this flat out ridiculous.

Fine. Then leave the rest of us alone. An atheist flying a banner overhead is about as welcome as a Jehohvah's Witness flying a banner overhead. Actually, the atheist is less welcome, due to the added hypocrisy bonus.

Of course, it WOULD be funny if one of those planes tried to buzz the Westover Baptist van.... ;:-)

You're right, Don_Q, missed that part. I just assumed we all borrowed from the Merriam-Webster dictionary of the term, and not subjective conclusions.

People by nature are very protective of what ever God they believe in. I, for one, don't walk around bible thumping, but I am a Christian and tend to defend my belief in God when asked. We don't ever need to get in anyone's face about what we believe in. Some do on both beliefs (or non-beliefs) and it turns people off.

You, and Christians like you,

LOL, broadly painting us into a nice and tidy little group, how"progressive" of you. You know nothing about me OR my beliefs, but if it makes you feel better to herd us into a make believe group have at it.

silly and short-sighted

Went right over your head I see. I'm not the one making a fuss here. Atheists are. Still no comment about their faux outrage over the Heaven sign, hmmm?

Not that I subscribe to a particular religion as I have my own idea as to how the grand scheme may work and do not care to have anothers belief rammed down my throat, I do not need one's lack of belief foisted upon me either. Ones religion or lack of it is a personal matter, I am puzzled by the constant back and forth over this subject as it really has no bearing on one's patriotism nor does it enhance or detract from whether one is a true American or not. Why not pray to your god or if you are not a believer then don't. Much more important things to fret over.

What is this incessant need to force your beliefs on everyone else? Sound familiar?

It sure does, and I agree, it's childish. But the religio-nazis started it, get them to quit, and we'll shut up, I promise.

Now, where can I get some of those cool bumper stickers?!

Luther - I think this bothers people because our Founding Fathers used God in the Articles and those Articles are part of our proud United States history. For some its going to feel like disrespecting the Founding Father's. That's just my respectful guess.

I'm not sure why atheists can't just be atheists.

Those who feel a need to try to get theists to change or abandon their faith are properly refered to as "antitheists". Atheists simply believe there is no God. Antitheists tend to proselytize.

This is why I'm now an "N/A-theist".

In another note, I'll be flying from STL basck to the LVNV Monday evening, so don't forget to wave when you're staring towards the sky looking for all of these banners...:)

LOL, broadly painting us into a nice and tidy little group, how"progressive" of you. You know nothing about me OR my beliefs, but if it makes you feel better to herd us into a make believe group have at it.

Nope, I'm simply taking the comments you have made here and drawing a conclusion. I'm not being broad about it at all, I didn't say ALL Christians I said Christians like you. Although, to be more fair I guess I should have used "believers" instead. You may very well not be a Christian.

I'm not the one making a fuss here. Atheists are.

I think you are actually choosing not to get it. AA is merely doing what every other Christian organisation does. And Christians/believers are getting upset about it. If there was no Christian outrage we wouldn't even be having this conversation. This article would have never been seeded and you would have never had the opportunity to call all Atheist "miserable" (talk about a broad brush).

Christians and believers need to learn to ignore things like this just like Atheist ignore the gobbles of Christian propaganda they see every day.

Heaven sign

That was state sponsored and tax payer funded. Big difference.

It sure does, and I agree, it's childish. But the religio-nazis started it, get them to quit, and we'll shut up, I promise.

"he started it"? really? so do you always do everything just because theists do it too? i thought the point of atheism was to not be like religious people...

Runner99, Although as I stated I am a-religious in the mainstream sense, I have respect for all true believers or non-believers for that matter I am just befuddled by the constant need of some to be so demonstrative about it or the rancor of both sides at times. You may be correct in your assessment it is a good observation but I think you can be a good American and a heathen at the same time.

I'm not sure why atheists can't just be atheists. What is this incessant need to force your beliefs on everyone else?

Why is stating their belief forcing it on someone?

Sound familiar?

Are we talking abortion?

You can be sure that if the fundamentalists and evangelical Christians had their own Luftwaffe — now there's something to be thankful for this coming Monday — we would have quite a few amazing air shows over the fairgrounds for our Fourth of July holiday: Meet the Fokkers.

#1.31 Off topic.

Abortion forces the mother's belief on a baby.

You can't abort a baby...duh. Nice try, though!

Oh no, a non-Cristian has a sign! BURN THE HERETIC!

Seriously, the fact that this is news shows the amount of discrimination.

There are more atheists than jews so....wtf america?

Luther

All good points.

U.S. currency has "In God We Trust" stamped on it; Our National Anthem, Pledge of Allegiance, etc., all have "God" in it somewhere. And that is a basic infringement of an atheists religious or non religious freedom. We are not a Christian Country. Never have been. But if the Right has their way, we will be.

robynlewisTX.

You really deny that there are evangelicals incessently pushing religious propaganda and trying to use the legal system to promote their propaganda, day in, day out? Come on and look at reality! How many full-gospel radio and tv stations, megachurches and standard churches, tent revivals, leaflets stuffed under doors and windshield wipers, pickets outside women's clinics, trying to put up ten commandment monuments, loudly mourning the loss of prayer in school, in every newspaper letters to the editors every week, opposing equal rights for gays, decrying the loss of traditional morals, Fallwell, Roberts, Robertson, Haggard, the Left Behind series, Dominionists - the list goes on and on and on.

But horror of horrors, some disbelievers decide to push back with some of their own propaganda, and it's intolerant bigotry, why don't they just shut up?!

How about the Bible-thumpers go first!!

Matthew 7:5

OK, I will agree that atheists do suffer some degree of discrimination. I also agree that the United States was not established as a Christian nation, that not with standing it has always been predominately populated by Christians. I am also in favor of as much of a "wall of separation between church and state" as is possible. But isn't it counter productive to use pejorative language in trying to cast off discrimination?

I would think a banner that said something like "Atheists are Patriots too: Hurray for the Red, White and Blue" would have been a better choice. Just my opinion, but I don't think you don't need to pick a fight to stand up for your own rights.

Reliant

That......was well said. Voted up.

@Rob-LVNevada In another note, I'll be flying from STL basck to the LVNV Monday evening.

I hope you enjoy your stay in our town this weekend... hottest weekend so far this year.. be safe..

Fact. Christian propaganda far outweighs Atheist propaganda

So true! There's NO comparison!

It's kinda like the homosexuals, coming out against long established and accepted standards in order to get their opinion into the media.

Atheism isn't a belief its a rejection of the belief in superstition/mythology.

@ runner99.........In what articles, and I assume you are talking abou the US Constitution, do the founding fathers endorse Christianity or any GOD?

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html

Please show me where it does!

We, Atheists do sometimes have to pick a fight to fight for what we want. We, are not on any kind of equal terms with Christians. Most Christians will not even vote for a non-believer but most Atheists do vote for a Christian. That is a well known fact. Hell, in reality you can't be anything else but Christian to become Pres of racist and bigot America. One of the 1st things that get vetted to be Pres is your religion. Once upon a time Mitt Romney was out down because of his non-Christian religion.

Can any Christian say that they carry something around that has "In non-god we trust"

robynlewisTX.

They won't be happy till we're all as miserable as they are.

Blanket statements...

LOL, broadly painting us into a nice and tidy little group, how"progressive" of you. You know nothing about me OR my beliefs, but if it makes you feel better to herd us into a make believe group have at it.

And then whining about blanket statements.

LOL.

For me, I'll take God blessing America, we sure could use it.

Isn't the point of this country that you're free to say that and I'm free to say we don't need superstitious beings' blessings and both our opinions are equal under the law? (Or maybe more accurately, both irrelevant as far as the laws of this country are concerned. )

I hope you enjoy your stay in our town this weekend

Why thank you...my wife and her son live in St Charles along with most of my crap. I would say I live there too, but from a taxation perspective, I live in NV...lol

I'd rather be out here in Vegas with 112' and 4% humidity over 90 with 80% any day.

You and yours stay safe too...

devilsadvocates

No, God is not mentioned in the Constitution. On July 21, 1775 Benjamin Franklin presented the Articles of Confederation to the Continental Congress. On March 1, 1781 the 13th State of Maryland ratified the documents. Mentioned, and later changed were the words "The year of our Lord" and verbage reflecting sovernty to God was changed.

I've seen that ridiculous claim before. So, since we've dropped that "year of our lord" crap does that mean we're all atheists now? Nevermind that the date has nothing to do with the content of the document, this is all the christian dominionists have got.

Look, I'm not trying to force my beliefs on you, and I couldn't if I tried. I just answered a question. Is that a problem for you?

Well, then, no harm, no foul--or do you feel harmed?

Nope

We're good, then.

Grim Creeper,

"What is this incessant need to force your beliefs on everyone else?"

Don't you mean "lack of beliefs"? I thought we have freedom of irreligion in this country! They're just spreading the Gospel (good news). You know what they say: "No news is good news".

I am way late to the God bashing party.

Christians and atheists agree on this point. We are all sick of the "Holier than thou" attitude from the oblivious orthodox religious community..

P.S. I don't believe in God or that Creeper is a true Republican or conservative

It seems to get the atheists' shorts all in a bunch, that other people do believe...

It seems to get the atheists' shorts all in a bunch, that other people do believe...

I am not an atheist, and I have encountered the random atheist who gets their "shorts all in a bunch" that other people believe, but mostly I've encountered atheists who are sick of having faith, in its various forms and consequences, forced upon them. They don't care what you believe, so long as what you believe doesn't force them into swearing on a Bible that means nothing to them, doesn't lead to formulations like "all X are evil" where X can be atheists, or Mormons, or Muslims, where terms like "jihad" have no religious relevance, etc. I can get where they're coming from. And for the few who do make an issue of it, well, my faith isn't up for discussion, so they don't tend to get far with me. The rest, frankly, seem nothing but pleased that my faith isn't up for discussion - it means I'm not likely to proselytize, either. So it goes.

Davy... just like NBC got the Christians shorts all in a bunch. Christians were very nasty to NBC after the word "god" was omitted for the that stupid Pledge

Davy,

I don't think it gets atheists' shorts in a bunch that other people believe as much as that they try to force what they believe down other people's throats. I think Chasing's post below yours is a good one. Not all Christians try to impose their beliefs on others. That sort of thing is restricted mostly to those who call themselves "evangelicals", who believe it is their God given mission in life to convert the converted as well as unbelievers. I once saw an article in an old newspaper from a German Catholic to the German Evangelical Alliance (around the early 20th. century). He thanked them for their offer of the Gospel saying, "Thank you, but we Catholics have had the Gospel for the past 2,000 years." I had to laugh at that.

I'm not sure why atheists can't just be atheists. What is this incessant need to force your beliefs on everyone else? Sound familiar?

I agree; I believe that atheists have gotten a rotten rep over the centuries for not "being in line with everyone else." However, a banner that reads, "GOD-LESS America"? I totally disagree; this is no different than trying to establish Sharia, Mosaic, or New Testament Bible Law.

Primarily because atheists are actually discriminated against, considering they can't hold certain public offices and are regularly scrutinized as being devil worshipers and baby eaters.

Throughout most of mainstream America, this doesn't hold water. The real truth is that anyone who continuously and repeatedly tries to jam their beliefs down the everyone else's throats is going to be viewed as a pain in the ass. Guess what? If you're a pain in the ass, I'm not going to hire you to work in my company either!

If you want people to treat you decently, stop being such a pain in the ass and forcing your opinions down the throats of everyone else! (This is for rabid atheists as well as rabid proponents of any religion.) You all need to live and let live. Worry about yourselves for change instead of everyone else.

I have to admit, as an N/A-theist, it's pretty rare that someone within earshot makes a religious comment that offends me, and generally - several alcoholic beverages have been consumed by both parties. Of course, I haven't hung out in places much recently where this might happen like churches, synagogues, or anywhere near "the South". As long as it's not in my house, it usually just gets filed away with some polite laughter.

Not being able to get Chick-Fil-A on Sundays is about as grieved as this party usually gets.

I must admit, that one pisses me off often. They just built one around the corner from my house in MO, and I'm only there 2 days every other week, one of which they're not open. Sigh...I digress.

Happy 4th, All. Remember, take your children to see the fireworks. Celebrate America!

Ask me why next week...:)

I totally disagree; this is no different than trying to establish Sharia, Mosaic, or New Testament Bible Law.

I could not disagree more. While I don't think banners or signs help atheism, if anything it probably hurts us and makes us all look bad, it is nothing like that at all. It's more like the billboards and signs churches put up.

Now if there were some atheists fighting to get "In god I don't believe" put on our money, then I could see your point. But these atheists are not trying to get anything legislated and are not forcing their (lack of) religion on anyone.

Throughout most of mainstream America, this doesn't hold water.

Really? How many atheists do you know of that have run for public office and/or won? What atheists are "continuously and repeatedly tries to jam their beliefs down the everyone else's throats"? Where is this occurring and how? Other than on NV I have never met one person who has admitted to being an atheist. I have never seen a billboard or any type of recruiting or spouting off. How can they possibly be a pain in the ass? Where do you live? I live in DC.

NV is loaded with atheists who are constantly whining about how rough they have it. Show me a politician who doesn't have to put on a false face to get elected in this country. As for not seeing anyone in public admitting to being an atheist, you must live under a rock. Atheists were the ones that whined about public religious displays at Christmas, the word "God" on public buildings, on money, in schools. And you need to read some airplane banners this weekend, or at least read the article that's been seeded here for hell's sake.

Sorry, but I'm not buying it. Most of America is sick of groups of people trying to force their belief systems on others. Atheists as well as religious fanatics.

I said NV, I've read the papers. How many politicians? None because they would never get elected, they rated after Muslims in a recent poll. I have never met anyone, have you? All your examples are abstract. On NV and in the paper a lot of religous people are also against "public religious displays at Christmas, the word "God" on public buildings, on money, in schools" so you can't blame that all on the atheists. Seems to me it isn't fanatics it's just they are different, for either atheists or the religous. And forcing belief systems I'm sick of the Republicans/Democrats shoving their beliefs on everyone.

Maggie, I can't say how many politicians never made it to office because of their beliefs - no one can. Yes, I've known self-professed atheists all my life. I grew up in NY and have lived all over the US. Some areas, especially out West and down South there is much less discussion of atheism, agreed.

a lot of religous people are also against "public religious displays at Christmas, the word "God" on public buildings, on money, in schools"

I can't recall a single individual. Sorry.

Seems to me it isn't fanatics it's just they are different, for either atheists or the religous. And forcing belief systems I'm sick of the Republicans/Democrats shoving their beliefs on everyone.

I think you and I disagree on specifics, but perhaps agree that it can be annoying when people do engage in this behavior? Maybe 'fanatics' was too strong a word for me to choose, granted. I concur with you completely about the Democrats and Republicans, though! :-) At least we're in synch on this!

It seems to get the atheists' shorts all in a bunch, that other people do believe...

Despite all evidence that it's the entirely the other way around, as the seeded article attests.

:-) At least we're in synch on this!

Great! I guess DC isn't a big atheist area.

#1.1 Conservative Conspirator - Atheists aren't worried about their carbon footprint(s)???

Check this out: Pat Robertson - Learjet ; Kenneth Copeland - 18-thousand square foot home valued at $6.3 million" and his "private jets"; Creflo Dollar - He flies to speaking engagements across the nation and Europe in a $5 million private jet and drives a black Rolls-Royce; Benny Hinn - Personal perks for Hinn, family and his entourage include a $10 million seaside mansion, a private jet with an annual operating cost of $1.5 million and a Mercedes SUV and convertible; Joyce Meyer - Meyer drives the ministry's 2002 Lexus SC sports car with a retractable top, valued at $53,000. Her son Dan, 25, drives the ministry's 2001 Lexus sedan, with a value of $46,000. Meyer's husband drives his Mercedes-Benz S55 AMG sedan. "My husband just likes cars," Meyer said. The Meyers keep the ministry's Canadair CL-600 Challenger jet, which Joyce Meyer says is worth $10 million

Uthaclena @ #1.38: Very nicely put.

I am rushing in my generous donation for my Prayer Pledge Package right now — which includes my one-of-a-kind complimentary 'Jesus Walks Among Us' Thermos® and my free subscription to The Christian Guide to Summer Cookouts Weekly.

Reliant @ #1.39:

I would think a banner that said something like "Atheists are Patriots too: Hurray for the Red, White and Blue" would have been a better choice.

I think your heart is in the right place, Reliant, but as is the case with the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy in the military, the underlying mentality is the same — they don't want to know about it and they don't want to hear about it.

Meds

I need to protect myself and my family from such corrupted primitive ignorance.

It reminds me of a saying I read on another atheist blog:

Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; you have fed him for a lifetime. Teach a man religion; he will die praying for fish.

If your faith is threatened by a banner on an airplane you really don't have much faith anyway do you?

The Grim Creeper

I'm not sure why atheists can't just be atheists. What is this incessant need to force your beliefs on everyone else? Sound familiar?

I think it's their way of striking back at all the religious freaks that bang on their doors every weekend trying to shove their beliefs down the people's throats.

I think it's a waste of time and money to do this, but hey, this is America, and if the religious people can yap all their beliefs down the peoples throats, I suppose the Atheists have every right to counter attack.

I've actually called the police on religious people for annoying me on the weekends. I want to sleep in, not listing to their ramblin bs.

Touche I say!

Anyone else notice the decided difference of intelligent thought process from posters? It's a wonder they have an education, let alone want to change it.

Why must I take down my flag or sign ' Cross ' ? I love Jesus and if you don't so what? Fly your sign, but stop trying to make me STOP flying mine.

I say you do because you know your belief is wrong and if you don't see the truth you don't have to claim it.

Why must I take down my flag or sign ' Cross ' ? I love Jesus and if you don't so what? Fly your sign, but stop trying to make me STOP flying mine.

No one is suggesting this, absolutely no one.

because you know your belief is wrong

Uh, no.

and if you don't see the truth

Uh, your truth?

you don't have to claim it.

???

@ndeeonow

I personally don't have a dog in this hunt. I don't think you SHOULD take your flag, or sign "cross" down. My only problem is when religion is "inserted" into taxpayer funded public places.

Let's just try to get one thing clear - most atheists I know aren't aggressive anti-theists. Most Christians I know aren't aggressive evangelize-or-die types. I put the people flying these particular banners because of their peculiar wording a half-step above the Westboro Baptist Church and on a par with the Jehovah Witnesses. I'm with Grumpy Jon and Nightbreeze on this one.

IMO, the 4th of July is about freedom and independence. Religion or lack of should just be left out of it.

buttzie

Anyone else notice the decided difference of intelligent thought process from posters? It's a wonder they have an education, let alone want to change it.

lmao, "Anyone else notice the decided difference of intelligent thought process from posters?"

Absolutely. We see you believing in some bs intangible god that does not exist, and then your faith goes out the window the first time you become sick and run to a doctor/science/medicine to heal you.

If this so-called god of yours is real, then pray for your healing the next time you become gravely ill, but we all know that 100% of the religious folks are hypocrites that preach one thing to the people, and then do another.

Let alone want to change it >>> The only one that wants change is religious people that tell others they are sinners if they do not follow your lunatic ways and beliefs.

Doctors saved my life for when I was terribly burned and was on death's door. IMO, they are my god and yours, because they are the ones that save human lives. Not your bs God and Religion that you claim is so great and powerful.

Kreepy-Krawler

That's a very interesting comment, and I agree with a number of points you made. But, there is one assumption that should be dispelled. I'm not silly enough to believe in a god. Sorry friend , you've misunderstood my purposely opaque comment. My fault for being vague.

Just to point out the obvious, the banner has nothing to do with jamming or forcing their beliefs down religious peoples throats. They aren't forcing anything, much less jamming anything. That's what the religious organizations do because they are inherently Theocritus. And we can probably thank the fact most religious people in America aren't nut cases that actually follow the bible, otherwise genocide of anyone not of their faith would be the in thing to do.

However, nobody here has the right not to be offended by a difference of belief or lack there of. Anyone that thinks this is forcing a belief on someone else really needs to learn the definition of the word "forcing". Especially coming from a crowd that truly knows what hypocrisy is about since it's the inherent nature of their religion to begin with. Atheists here are also not committing hypocrisy. You don't see them trying to install an Atheist state as you see Christians trying to install a Christian Theocracy. And everyone knows this is the path that America is seemingly taking..

Let's just give an example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mrB2_zuFUU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsl6a0N5LdI

You don't see Atheists trying to teach pseudo-science, circular logic, aim to brainwash children with creationism in the public school system, legislating their lack of belief, or re-write history... Oh wait, Sarah Palin comments on "In GOD We Trust" as some out the national Motto, or something the founding fathers gave us.. Really?

Theocracywatch.org might be a good place to start, but clearly American Christianity is playing the sneak theocracy into government game.

I would say that America is less than 100 years from becoming a total Christian theocracy with laws in accordance to the bible. If it does happen, don't be surprised to see the American version of Afghanistan.

How do you force a non-belief on people? Sure you could persecute believers, but you don't have to be a non-believer to persecute different faiths. Surely merely expressing your non-belief isn't forcing it on others, or else Christian missionaries are forcing their beliefs on others.

Does the Christian's non-belief in the Muslim faith compel them to do anything? Do they force their non-belief of Islam on others? No they try to replace the Muslim's faith with a belief in Jesus.

If not believing in any gods is a belief or faith, then does the Christian have many faiths and beliefs, he has one faith in Jesus, and another faith in the non-belief of Islam, and another faith in the non-belief of Hinduism and another.... well you get the idea.

Christians can act like they are being persecuted when several states have it written in their constitutions that they can't hold public office (like it really is for atheists)

States in which Atheists can't hold elected office in....

Arkansas

Maryland

Mississippi

Pennsylvania

South Carolina

Tennessee

From Wiki:

In the United States, seven state constitutions officially include religious tests that would effectively prevent atheists from holding public office, and in some cases being a juror/witness, though these have not generally been enforced since the early nineteenth century.^[33][34][35] The U.S. Constitution allows for an affirmation instead of an oath in order to accommodate atheists and others in court or seeking to hold public office.^[33][36] In 1961, the United States Supreme Court explicitly overturned the Maryland provision in the Torcaso v. Watkins decision, holding that laws requiring "a belief in the existence of God" in order to hold public office violated freedom of religion provided for by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.^[33][37][38] This decision is generally understood to also apply to witness oaths.^[39]

I see robynlewis is predictably pulling out the trite, tired old "atheists are miserable" silliness. I think Christians must have to believe that, because the alternative, that people can be perfectly happy and lead satisfying lives -without- any gods is very, very frightening to them. And like animals who feel threatened, they lash out any way they can.

I won't waste any time talking about how I'm quite happy with my life, sans any gods...they know it, deep down inside. That's what scares them the most...that perhaps, they are wasting their lives paying homage to an imaginary friend, while we atheists are actually living life to it's fullest, without wasting time on our knees.

It's OK, robyn...we forgive you, not because it's required of us, but because that's just the way we are. 8)

Mr Jones. You can attempt to force disbelief in something down someone's throat. Which is what atheism is, as evidenced by everything about the word.

Curt, WI -- Seperation from church and state is just that. Means our government can't make you worship anything, but doesn't mean the government can't lean one way or the other. Doesn't mean they can help a church.

They just can't force you to believe in their god.

That is because our country is based off of Christian Beliefs. We are already a Christian Nation. You can tell this by Christian Symbols craved into our Government Building.

Atheist want to CHANGE that. So Atheist is cramming their belief down Americas Throat.

Jesus Told you a great rebellion would come in the latter days and it had to come. He also said a One World Religion would come. That religion will be one WITH OUT Jesus.

What do atheist want to remove? Jesus and the Cross.

Hell it's all kinds of gods. You have Allah, Sun god, moon god, Zeus, You got people that worship animals and other things, BUT it is only one name under heaven which you can be saved -- JESUS CHRIST .. Jesus is the TRUTH, the WAY, the LIFE -- No one comes to the Father but by him.

See all other religions ' Including Atheist can't be right is Jesus is right. Jesus and the Cross which he died on so anyone that would come to him will have ever lasting salvation.

#1.92 #1.93 ... As an atheist I am offended by much of what you say here. I have no belief and am not trying to cram anything down anyone's throat. All I am doing is trying to keep religion from crossing a line into government.

I personally do not believe and I don't care what you believe. Much of what you pontificate here is illogical and borders on stupid to me. But those are your choices. I just don't want you anywhere near or have any influence on my offspring.

Little Sure Shot - IMO, the 4th of July is about freedom and independence. Religion or lack of should just be left out of it.

And one can freely celebrate the 4th of July they way they choose. Some may feel that not only do they want to celebrate their freedom and independence from Great Britain and King George, but many choose to also celebrate their freedom and independence from religious rule.

Why must I take down my flag or sign ' Cross ' ? I love Jesus and if you don't so what? Fly your sign, but stop trying to make me STOP flying mine.

Since no one is suggesting any such thing, this kind of comment falls into the "senseless whining" category.

I see robynlewis is predictably pulling out the trite, tired old "atheists are miserable" silliness. I think Christians must have to believe that, because the alternative, that people can be perfectly happy and lead satisfying lives -without- any gods is very, very frightening to them.

I was thinking the same thing. I am an atheist an I'm the happiest person I know! My co-workers are always amazed at my never-ending good mood and huge smile. I'm happily married to a wonderful man (also atheist). We are sweet and polite to each other at all times, even after 7 years. We NEVER fight. I don't know anyone from ANY religion who is as happy as I am!

That is because our country is based off of Christian Beliefs. We are already a Christian Nation. You can tell this by Christian Symbols craved into our Government Building.

Atheist want to CHANGE that. So Atheist is cramming their belief down Americas Throat.

I can tell that you know absolutely nothing about American History. But then again, I doubt that you actually care. Especially when you stated yourself that the only book you read is the bible.

Hell it's all kinds of gods. You have Allah, Sun god, moon god, Zeus, You got people that worship animals and other things, BUT it is only one name under heaven which you can be saved -- JESUS CHRIST .. Jesus is the TRUTH, the WAY, the LIFE -- No one comes to the Father but by him.

See all other religions ' Including Atheist can't be right is Jesus is right. Jesus and the Cross which he died on so anyone that would come to him will have ever lasting salvation.

The intentional depositing of a Logical fallacy, and the preaching of Stockholm syndrome.. You're as dishonest as they get. But it's ok, we educated people know brainwashing when we see it. And you can't get much more disgusting than that, especially when you know what you are doing, or attempting to do.

Documents at Bush Presidential Library Prove
VP Bush Questioned Citizenship and Patriotism of Atheists

http://www.robsherman.com/advocacy/060401a.htm

the religious nuts of this country need to step back. This country was not founded on the Christian myth ... but freedom of and from religion.

real patriots realize that fact.

What is sad is that I wonder if the Atheists, and the smaller groups of theists in this nation are the only one's keeping this country from spiraling back to the dark ages. I almost wonder how long it will be before the majority of Americans would barely be literate. :/ And it's interesting that America is one of the Nations in this world that has book banning.

As said in Latin:

"Cave ab homini unius libri." "Beware the man of one book."

Travel the world and live in other nations for awhile and you'll likely find out that America's religious fervor and patriotic flag waving terrorizes (or at least frightens) many foreign citizens. They see us as lacking common sense, presenting ourselves with elitism, and stomping around with an attitude of my way or the highway. I have had some compare us to nazi germany in the 30's.

That is because our country is based off of Christian Beliefs. We are already a Christian Nation. You can tell this by Christian Symbols craved into our Government Building.

And people like you are exactly the reason that there are atheists like the ones you're complaining about. Stop trying to make this a Christian nation and stop trying to force your beliefs into the public and onto other people.

We're not a Christian nation, and we never will be. Why should that matter to people who believe? Why must you try so hard to warp the truth to make your country agree with your faith?

Atheist want to CHANGE that. So Atheist is cramming their belief down Americas Throat.

So pulling your beliefs out of my throat is cramming mine down yours? That's very interesting...

Jesus Told you a great rebellion would come in the latter days and it had to come. He also said a One World Religion would come. That religion will be one WITH OUT Jesus.

Was that before or after he said he'd return before everyone of his generation died off?

OK, I have a problem with this whole concept.
First off, the majority of the people in America do indeed believe in some form of creator or omnipotent being who transcends time and space. (God to some, Allah to some, Many other names throughout the population).

This is no different than the people coming to my door and trying to push their beliefs on me. If someone came to my door pushing the atheist point of view, I would still send them away, as I do not wish to listen to them.

You don't see any other "missionaries" flying banners and such, so this is a new twist, but it is still an attempt at forcing their ideals and beliefs on the rest.

What is wrong with having a spiritual nature? Whether it's doctrine of a nation or an individual? As long as there is no coercion of religious views reflected in the judicial system or governmental institution, there is no harm.

So much of this country has been bending over backwards to appease the vocal minority, and to not offend a few - while allowing the few to turn around and offend the many. How is this right?

Personally, what I believe is my business and nobody can change it. I am deeply offended by those who think they can try, regardless of which way the pendulum swings. By forcing the agenda upon the majority is just asking for trouble, but I think that is the underlying drive. These people do not want a peaceful coexistence, they are no different that any other religious extremist group, bent on forcing their way on the rest.

Mongowildman This is no different than the people coming to my door and trying to push their beliefs on me.

Really? So you're having to stop what you're doing, washing dishes, sleeping, folding laundry, feeding your children, moping the floor, taking a shower, watching TV, interrupting my children while doing their homework to answer the door, etc., to seeing airplanes flying over head? Seriously, it's no difference???

This is in NO way the same as someone disrupting your daily activities to preach their religion. Church billboards that I pass driving two miles to the grocery store is a more suitable comparison to planes flying over head than religious people knocking on your door. Please stop the your ridiculous and exaggerating comparisons. Geez!

You don't see any other "missionaries" flying banners and such, so this is a new twist, but it is still an attempt at forcing their ideals and beliefs on the rest.

I wouldn't care less, and I'd be happy that at least their not knocking on my door.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE4BW-i-Byc

You don't see any other "missionaries" flying banners and such, so this is a new twist, but it is still an attempt at forcing their ideals and beliefs on the rest.

As you can see in the video, your argument is moot. The banner in the video is rather mild, christian groups have actually advertised hate( anti-gay,anti-choice) messages as well. Flying around the sky is in no way comparible to standing on your door step.

Lola,
It's just another avenue that just hasn't been tried. I don't like the church bill boards either but they have the right to advertise just like anyone else. If they are trying to push an agenda however, that's a different thing.

You don't see them trying to make change in policy of the country, they are trying to remind those who follow more than anything else.

There is no exaggeration here, I am just trying to put it into perspective. I am not saying that flying planes is the same as canvassing neighborhoods. I am saying that it's a new twist.

What I DID say, was that I don't care what the message, religious or anti-religious, they get the same response - a door closed on them. I don't want any of them coming to my door - period.

You do not see bill boards or banners that say "Catholic America" or "Islam America", nor do you see them saying "Nazi America" or anything else like that. What you do see are banners for Geico Insurance and gentleman's clubs during sporting events. A whole different reason to be flying banners.

Lola,

"Please stop the your ridiculous and exaggerating comparisons"

I don't see any ridiculous and exaggerating comparisons in Mongowildman's post. It seems quite reasonable to me.

I don't see any ridiculous and exaggerating comparisons

This would be considered a difference of opinion. But I also find the argument far fetched as well. However you want to look at it, standing on my door step attempting sell 'what ever' is an invasion. A roadway billboard or a banner in sky is- as previously stated- not comparable.

You can tell this by Christian Symbols craved into our Government Building.

Which buildings and which symbols exactly?

We know for a fact, from the Barna Institute data, that christians in general have a higher rate of divorce than any other religious group or atheists. And the more fundamentalist the christianity, the higher the divorce rate. That doesn't translate to a being very happy in my opinion. I would also suspect and submit that religious people would be much less likely to admit to being unhappy since it would be a stigma for them personally and within their religious group to do so.

Which buildings and which symbols exactly?

Maybe the Pentagon? Druids and witchcraft...

A: It isn't, it never has been, and hopefully it never will be - if it is someone has burned our Constitution.

Q: Is the United States a Christian nation?

an interesting study on crime and religion ..

The Federal Bureau of Prisons does have statistics on religious affiliations of inmates. The following are total number of inmates per religion category: Response, Number, and %----------------------- --------

Judeo-Christian Total  62594   83.761% (of the 74731 total responses)

Note that atheists, being a moderate proportion of the USA population (about 8-16%) are disproportionately less in the prison populations (0.21%)

http://www.holysmoke.org/icr-pri.htm

A: It isn't, it never has been, and hopefully it never will be - if it is someone has burned our Constitution.

Q: Is the United States a Christian nation?

Right. Religious or faithful does not necessarily mean Christian. To believe is not the property of any one faith.

America is primarily a spiritual nation of many faiths, by majority. The values the country bases much of the constitution are called "Christian values" but in reality are common among most, regardless of the religious affiliation. Even those who do not believe in anything, still see the difference between right and wrong, good and bad.

By imposing one's beliefs today is really no different that the crusades, where Christianity was spread under the similar guise as what is said of Islam today. It was not right then as it is still not right today. By attempting to change policy of a nation to be in commerce with the views of a select group in defiance of the majority of the population is simply asking for trouble.

The Grim Creeper

I'm not sure why atheists can't just be atheists. What is this incessant need to force your beliefs on everyone else? Sound familiar?

We're not trying to force our views on anyone. We're just trying to free ourselves, and everyone else, from all of the bullsh!t the "christians" have buried everyone in the US under. The 'christians' want to spread the fear of Sharia Law, which can't be legally enforced in the US, but insist on trying to force their own religious beliefs onto everyone else. Can you say...

H — Y — P — O — C — R — I — T — E — S — ?

The punchline to this seed? This is only a major issue to the teabags, foxtards, and rightwing religious hypocrites.

By attempting to change policy of a nation to be in commerce with the views of a select group in defiance of the majority of the population is simply asking for trouble.

The policies of our nation are already secular and will remain that way as long as we have a Constitution to protect it. Secular views are not in the majority, but that has never changed our nation's founding articles or our adherence to secular governance.

Flying a banner isn't an attempt to change policy...but even if it was, why would that be asking for trouble? What policy could these banners be trying to change? The policy of trying to silence any viewpoint that isn't held by the majority? If so...that's a very bad policy that should be changed...don't you think?

The majority is immaterial. If I am a minority of ONE, my Constitutional rights are still fully protected, and may not be infringed by any majority.

Iarnuocon? or somebody on NV I saved once.

NK, Yes, the country IS secular but the majority of the people are not the same as the government. Much of the founding beliefs that this country is based upon are the same as IF it were.

All have the the right to say what they want but more people might be against the idea than for it. I don't care really if they want to spend their money on the banners and the planes, it's good for the economy. It's just the idea that some people want to change things that have been in place for 200 years, simply because they think their way is better. By genericizing the country, we are just turning the population into just a bunch of zombies with no identity. We are not all the same, we are all different and by trying to remove the differences, whether by limiting or removing accepted practices or giving everybody a blue ribbon but not claiming a winner is undermining our individuality.

This is the land of equal opportunity, not necessarily equal success. It is up to the individual whether there is success or not.

The concept of Separation of Church and State does not mean the elimination of one from the other. It means that affairs of the state are not dictated by the concepts and doctrine of the Church and the Church is free to provide the spiritual guidance according to their traditions without interference or control by the State. All of course within the limits of acceptable moralities, so Human Sacrifice is illegal as is animal sacrifice and the like.

The country tries to maintain high moral standards and some believe that the Church provides the inspiration. Sure, it can probably be done without but why bother?

Now, with that said, I do not follow any Church, so I am not biased in either ideal. I see what works and what doesn't. It has been working for 200 years, so leave it alone.

Flying a banner is not going to change policy but it's the message that might try. I do not think that any minor participant should have things to their explicit liking at the expense of the rest. It's OK to change the world if it is of benefit to the world but to change the world for personal purposes is just selfish.

@Scuba: I love the misuse and selectivity of generalization you and a great many atheists use. You say that "atheists" aren't seeking to shove their beliefs down anyones throat. While it's obvious at least some are. Then you say that "christians" on the other hand are, when it's also obvious that not all of them are. And some even *gasp* dislike the prosetylizing of their peers almost as much as you. Just something to think about.

And incidentally, freedom of religion no more means freedom from religion than freedom of speech is freedom from speech.

While it's obvious at least some are.

Where? Who? When?

And incidentally, freedom of religion no more means freedom from religion than freedom of speech is freedom from speech.

And that statement makes absolutely no sense since we do have freedom from some types of speech: that's why there are libel, slander and copyright laws and other laws prohibiting speech the directly promotes violence or might cause panic (you know, the old example of yelling "fire" in a theater example). There is no absolute freedom of all kinds of speech. Political speech is protected from government suppression almost all the time but can be legally suspended. Just look at that private who feed wikileaks their information. He was not free to do that with impunity.

e. You say that "atheists" aren't seeking to shove their beliefs down anyones throat. While it's obvious at least some are.

Theoretically some may seek to do that, but would I support someone trying to create an Atheist state? Not a chance in hell. It's up those of us that actually have our heads screwed on right to realize the secular system is the system that best protects all parties.. If we lose that in any direction, its very bad news to which would never end well.

The lesson here people is to never give power to anyone that seeks to do something like install a Theocracy, or even an Atheist state. We all know very well, I would hope, that our nations strength is it's very diversity.

America's current political climate is a very dangerous one atm. America is in fact on that line of whether or not it descends into a theocracy or remains a secular system. It's on that line where the Christian political movement is seeking to tear down those walls between church and state.. So when elections come up, I can only hope that most Americans have some commonsense in this regard.. If America does descend into a Theocracy, I will be the first to leave as I would not care to live in an American Afghanistan.

Why do people think atheists are trying to make America a atheist Country?

8% of the population is atheist, zero have run for office or are in office, it is on the books in ~7-8? states that they are not allowed to run for office. One banner by one self appointed group and the religious people feel threatened. That's funny. Where are you, Thejackel, getting the idea that atheists do not support a secular country?

Why do people think atheists are trying to make America a atheist Country?

I don't think they are trying to make the country atheist. I think they are trying to make it against the law to refer to God or any other deity because they think it affects the way the laws are written and enforced.

To some extent, I can understand the concept. The separation of Church and State is a particularly sticky issue. The country is trying to maintain a set of high standards and morality, which is also something that the Church, (well most of them anyway) also professes. Because of these similar set of ideals, there is some confusion as to where to draw that line between the two.

Civil law is not, and never should be, decided by religious beliefs. The laws are there to protect the masses from others that wish to do harm. Religion and reference to God does not do harm, rather, they are generally geared toward peaceful and harmonious coexistence among people.

Yeah, I find it irritating when someone gets preachy and asks me if I found God or got religion. It's none of their business. It's the same if someone tells me that it's a waste of time and effort to carry such faith as well.

You have to remember history here. The morals and the difference between right and wrong are universal. The ten commandments may have religious undertones but look at them and tell me how they should not apply. OK, except for the one about God that is... They are basic moral values. A couple of them are the same thing in different words but I think that was just to round it out to an even ten. (just like the repetitious references to forty days and forty nights, throughout the Bible. - and the Koran too, I think)

It is natural for the sentient human mind to want to believe in something beyond what can be directly comprehended. While there are many who might not believe in that possibility, the majority of the population does. Like I said, it does not do any harm.

So, the slogan "In God we trust" does not necessarily mean there is a link to religion by the government. All it means is that the government believes through its laws and legislation that we have faith in that which is morally right and just. God in this sense is the manifestation of this concept. The same for the "under God" statement in the Pledge of Allegiance. God it the personification again of righteous and just morals. We are One nation under God, in the sense that we are united with the common goal of equal rights, liberty, morality and justice.

I'm sure you mean well but on NV, consistently, people use the pledge/money/inscriptions on federal buildings to PROVE we are a Christian nation. So to them, when you say God you mean GOD. There is no reason for God to be featured on our government money/buildings/pledges and a very good reason it shouldn't, it makes people think this is a Christian nation and it makes people who do not believe have to participate in a gov't sponsored religion which supposedly is protected under the constitution.

I think what most people are concerned about in this, is that when god is referred to by the government, it is essentially taking a stance on a particlear religion, They feel they are not really considered part of the Country they were born into or decided to become a member by working very hard to become a citizen of.

In school, it was always pointed out that we have the freedom to worship anyway we chose, as long we don't infringe on the right of others to worship as they choose.

Who is the god are they referring to when you say "In God We Trust "or "Under God"

The common goal of equal rights, liberity, morality and justice, does not come from any one religon or any religion, It also does not mean you do not have any of those things if you don't believe in God.

Why do people think atheists are trying to make America a atheist Country?

Part of it is psychological projection since it comes mostly from people who'd like to make this a christianist country and another part is that they probably makes them feel justified in pushing for that to "protect us" from atheism, which, of course, is no kind of threat (well, except imaginary).

Wraith777

@Scuba: I love the misuse and selectivity of generalization you and a great many atheists use. You say that "atheists" aren't seeking to shove their beliefs down anyones throat. While it's obvious at least some are.

When you show me someone advocating putting "In God We Do Not Trust" on our currency, then tell me that an atheist is trying to force his/her views on you. Taking it off, on the other hand, is not forcing a view onto you and others. It's simply removing your forced belief from others, including those that practice differing religions.

When you show me someone trying to add "Not Under the Santa Some Call God" to the Pledge of Allegiance, then tell me that an atheist is trying to force his/her views on you. Removing "Under Dog", I mean "god" from the Pledge, when it was added in response to McCarthyism, is, again, simply removing your forced beliefs from others.

Then you say that "christians" on the other hand are, when it's also obvious that not all of them are. And some even *gasp* dislike the prosetylizing of their peers almost as much as you. Just something to think about.

Show me one "christian' in favor of removing "Under Dog" I mean "god" from the Pledge of Allegiance and "In god We Trust" from our currency. Show me one that will vote for a politician that does not believe in the "higher power" of god and jesus. Start the petitions yourself, right now, instead of saying you wouldn't object.

And incidentally, freedom of religion no more means freedom from religion than freedom of speech is freedom from speech.

Wrong again. Freedom of Religion does indeed include my not having your beliefs forced onto me. You "christians" like that little saying don't you? You all like to have someone come up with a little "catchy" phrase that has no basis in truth and proclaim it to your high heaven. "Kinda like "Dog (Damn! Did it again. Damn Dyslexia!)... god hates fags" or "god is going to destroy America" or "god sent Katrina to New Orleans because of..."

You can say things about your religion all you want. But DO NOT try to force your religious beliefs onto me or others. THAT, my friend, is Freedom From Religion. I fought for your right to practice your religious beliefs, and for my right to not be forced to abide by your archaic ridiculous rituals and beliefs as well.

Again the assumption I must be a theist...... How tedious.... I don't think I shall bother repeating myself except to say I am not and that you need to read the history and if you have reread it and take your schemata blinders off if you're capable.

When you show me someone advocating putting "In God We Do Not Trust" on our currency, then tell me that an atheist is trying to force his/her views on you. Taking it off, on the other hand, is not forcing a view onto you and others. It's simply removing your forced belief from others, including those that practice differing religions.

When you show me someone trying to add "Not Under the Santa Some Call God" to the Pledge of Allegiance, then tell me that an atheist is trying to force his/her views on you. Removing "Under Dog", I mean "god" from the Pledge, when it was added in response to McCarthyism, is, again, simply removing your forced beliefs from others.

Show me one "christian' in favor of removing "Under Dog" I mean "god" from the Pledge of Allegiance and "In god We Trust" from our currency. Show me one that will vote for a politician that does not believe in the "higher power" of god and jesus. Start the petitions yourself, right now, instead of saying you wouldn't object.

Two words, look them up please sir. Non Sequitur. And since when has anyone converted to Christianity or any religion really because of the wording on the money or in PoF? Never heard anyone say, "Well, it's on the money! I must be Christian now!" But thanks for the laugh at the ludicris thought.

Wrong again. Freedom of Religion does indeed include my not having your beliefs forced onto me. You "christians" like that little saying don't you? You all like to have someone come up with a little "catchy" phrase that has no basis in truth and proclaim it to your high heaven. "Kinda like "Dog (Damn! Did it again. Damn Dyslexia!)... god hates fags" or "god is going to destroy America" or "god sent Katrina to New Orleans because of..."

Someone having contrary belief, and expressing it, than yours is hardly forcing it upon you. Funny how so many that make this assumption seem to leave themselves out of the equation and thus apply this "rule" only on those they dislike. Since by their own reconing they, would be attempting to force their beliefs down someone else's throat by having them.

The comment was geared towards pointing out the fact that you cannot silence someone's freedom of speech simply because you disagree with it. Which is really what alot of you are trying to do. Because you find it offensive in true victim mentality form.

Also, funny observation, the up arrows are almost always five on any atheist arguing against me.... Wonder why that is.

Wonder why that is.

My guess would be because there is hardly ever a post about atheists from this POV (not insulting) so it has attracted more than five, they are enjoying it and voting up comments they like. That's what the up arrow is for.

BTW you are correct the stamp on the money may not have directly converted anyone but I am always surprised by how many people cite it as proof this is a "Christian Nation", people being the conformists they are may have fallen in or never questioned it because of that.

Soooooo.....Did anyone see any of these plains? If so did it make you question your belief in god?

I was on final approach into LV at sunset. It was pretty cool to see all of the fireworks going off in all of the neighborhoods, but I did not see any atheist banners...sigh. I highly recommend viewing the festivities at around 5-10,000 feet though if anyone ever gets a chance, it's a whole new perspective.

It was another great holiday to be an N/A-theist though...:)

I highly recommend viewing the festivities at around 5-10,000 feet though if anyone ever gets a chance, it's a whole new perspective.

That sounds cool. I saw a fireworks show over a coastline from 9 stories high once. You can see several towns along the coast having a fireworks show all at the same time and be able to see them all at that height, which was also on a clear night. Talk about spectacular.

Why do people think atheists are trying to make America a atheist Country?

Who says atheists are trying to make America atheist? Perhaps that's just a misperception based on atheists fighting religious intrusion in the government or law. But that doesn't mean atheism is being advocated. it means constitutional integrity is being advocated.

it is on the books in ~7-8? states that they are not allowed to run for office.

Which of course is null and void and completely unenforceable.

Religion and reference to God does not do harm, rather, they are generally geared toward peaceful and harmonious coexistence among people.

In terms of the law, religious references by the government, especially if mandated by federal law, is in violation of separation and the Constitution.

The ten commandments may have religious undertones but look at them and tell me how they should not apply.

Only 2 commandments have any real application to law. But our laws are not based on the commandments either.

A couple of them are the same thing in different words but I think that was just to round it out to an even ten.

Most of them have the same theme: obedience.

It is natural for the sentient human mind to want to believe in something beyond what can be directly comprehended.

That doesn't mean belief is factual or valid, especially in an intellectual sense. It's akin to assigning an explanation, any explanation, to something unknown or not understood.

While there are many who might not believe in that possibility, the majority of the population does.

Argumentum ad populum.

So, the slogan "In God we trust" does not necessarily mean there is a link to religion by the government.

The slogan is mandated by federal law. That links a religious concept to the government, which is unconstitutional.

All it means is that the government believes through its laws and legislation that we have faith in that which is morally right and just. God in this sense is the manifestation of this concept.

Which only proves my previous point. Our laws cannot be based on any religious concept or deity. The Constitution forbids it. Our laws must be passed and valid according to constitutional guidelines.

The same for the "under God" statement in the Pledge of Allegiance.

Also unconstitutional!

God it the personification again of righteous and just morals.

Maybe for you. But not everyone's morals come from god, nor do our laws. And the government has no right to make any such declarations to that effect.

We are One nation under God, in the sense that we are united with the common goal of equal rights, liberty, morality and justice.

Sorry, but we are not one nation under god. God does not represent or even apply to everyone, nor can the government mandate such a thing. Our rights and liberties come from the Constitution, not religious ideologies.

Who is the god are they referring to when you say "In God We Trust "or "Under God"

Does it matter? But it's safe to assume most people will agree that "god" referred to is the judeo-christian god. Either way, the government cannot invoke God or any god/s, especially through law.

Taking it off, on the other hand, is not forcing a view onto you and others. It's simply removing your forced belief from others, including those that practice differing religions.

It is also maintaining government religious neutrality and secularity.

You can say things about your religion all you want. But DO NOT try to force your religious beliefs onto me or others. THAT, my friend, is Freedom From Religion.

Indeed! Just as we have freedom of religion, we also have freedom from religion.

Didn't see any banners in Denver... Just the Geico one. Other than that, a couple of F-16's flying low and hot right over my house, probably for an air show.

gordy327

Step-by-step in total agreement. FR sent.

Have a great (not necessarily 'blessed') day!!